[aerogear-dev] Strange encrypted store behavior

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[aerogear-dev] Strange encrypted store behavior

TadeasKriz
Hi there,

in December, I’ve reported [1] and today Passos asked me if I could rather send it here to discuss it, as this behavior is the same in other platform’s implementations (which I wasn’t aware of before). So please read the description on that JIRA issue. Basically I have nothing more to say about it, what’s not in the description already. So, what do you think?


Tadeas Kriz


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Re: [aerogear-dev] Strange encrypted store behavior

Bruno Oliveira
Hi Tadeas, replied on the same issue.


On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 12:43 PM, Tadeas Kriz <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi there,

in December, I’ve reported [1] and today Passos asked me if I could rather send it here to discuss it, as this behavior is the same in other platform’s implementations (which I wasn’t aware of before). So please read the description on that JIRA issue. Basically I have nothing more to say about it, what’s not in the description already. So, what do you think?


Tadeas Kriz


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Re: [aerogear-dev] Strange encrypted store behavior

Corinne Krych
Hi Tadeas,

I think you bring back on the table an unfinished discussion on the topic of AGPassphraseKeyServices(used in password demo app) vs. AGPasswordKeyServices (not used in any demo yet).

In AGPasswordKeyServices the password is stored in secure local storage (KeyChain for iOS, KeyStore for Android), therefore you could do a password check at login time as stated in your workflow. I think we intended to have 2 diffences EncryptionServices for those differents usage.
http://aerogear-dev.1069024.n5.nabble.com/aerogear-dev-Android-Crypto-API-sample-td5306.html
More work is needed for AGPasswordKeyServices and adding a demo/recipe app for it would be nice.
@summers @cvasilak do you remember the discussion?

As for the problem of encrypting with one passphrase then another one and not be able to decrypt any data afterward, I think this is an issue that should be fixed. JIRA needed.

++
Corinne
On Jan 14, 2014, at 2:23 AM, Bruno Oliveira <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Tadeas, replied on the same issue.
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 12:43 PM, Tadeas Kriz <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> in December, I’ve reported [1] and today Passos asked me if I could rather send it here to discuss it, as this behavior is the same in other platform’s implementations (which I wasn’t aware of before). So please read the description on that JIRA issue. Basically I have nothing more to say about it, what’s not in the description already. So, what do you think?
>
> 1 - https://issues.jboss.org/browse/AGDROID-173
>
> —
> Tadeas Kriz
> [hidden email]
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> aerogear-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/aerogear-dev
>
>
>
> --
>
> --
> "The measure of a man is what he does with power" - Plato
> -
> @abstractj
> -
> Volenti Nihil Difficile
> _______________________________________________
> aerogear-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/aerogear-dev


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Re: [aerogear-dev] Strange encrypted store behavior

Bruno Oliveira
Again, storing passwords no matter how super safe is the KeyChain is a terrible idea. Don't do it, please.

> As for the problem of encrypting with one passphrase then another one and not be able to decrypt any data afterward, I think this is an issue that should be fixed. JIRA needed.

This is mostly because you have to add a feature of passphrase change first.


On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 3:46 AM, Corinne Krych <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Tadeas,

I think you bring back on the table an unfinished discussion on the topic of AGPassphraseKeyServices(used in password demo app) vs. AGPasswordKeyServices (not used in any demo yet).

In AGPasswordKeyServices the password is stored in secure local storage (KeyChain for iOS, KeyStore for Android), therefore you could do a password check at login time as stated in your workflow. I think we intended to have 2 diffences EncryptionServices for those differents usage.
http://aerogear-dev.1069024.n5.nabble.com/aerogear-dev-Android-Crypto-API-sample-td5306.html
More work is needed for AGPasswordKeyServices and adding a demo/recipe app for it would be nice.
@summers @cvasilak do you remember the discussion?

As for the problem of encrypting with one passphrase then another one and not be able to decrypt any data afterward, I think this is an issue that should be fixed. JIRA needed.

++
Corinne
On Jan 14, 2014, at 2:23 AM, Bruno Oliveira <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Tadeas, replied on the same issue.
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 12:43 PM, Tadeas Kriz <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> in December, I’ve reported [1] and today Passos asked me if I could rather send it here to discuss it, as this behavior is the same in other platform’s implementations (which I wasn’t aware of before). So please read the description on that JIRA issue. Basically I have nothing more to say about it, what’s not in the description already. So, what do you think?
>
> 1 - https://issues.jboss.org/browse/AGDROID-173
>
> —
> Tadeas Kriz
> [hidden email]
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> aerogear-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/aerogear-dev
>
>
>
> --
>
> --
> "The measure of a man is what he does with power" - Plato
> -
> @abstractj
> -
> Volenti Nihil Difficile
> _______________________________________________
> aerogear-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/aerogear-dev


_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
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--

-- 
"The measure of a man is what he does with power" - Plato
-
@abstractj
-
Volenti Nihil Difficile

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Re: [aerogear-dev] Strange encrypted store behavior

Corinne Krych

On Jan 14, 2014, at 2:11 PM, Bruno Oliveira <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Again, storing passwords no matter how super safe is the KeyChain is a terrible idea. Don't do it, please.

Sorry not password but key.

>
> > As for the problem of encrypting with one passphrase then another one and not be able to decrypt any data afterward, I think this is an issue that should be fixed. JIRA needed.
>
> This is mostly because you have to add a feature of passphrase change first.

+1 make sense
i

>
>
> On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 3:46 AM, Corinne Krych <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi Tadeas,
>
> I think you bring back on the table an unfinished discussion on the topic of AGPassphraseKeyServices(used in password demo app) vs. AGPasswordKeyServices (not used in any demo yet).
>
> In AGPasswordKeyServices the password is stored in secure local storage (KeyChain for iOS, KeyStore for Android), therefore you could do a password check at login time as stated in your workflow. I think we intended to have 2 diffences EncryptionServices for those differents usage.
> http://aerogear-dev.1069024.n5.nabble.com/aerogear-dev-Android-Crypto-API-sample-td5306.html
> More work is needed for AGPasswordKeyServices and adding a demo/recipe app for it would be nice.
> @summers @cvasilak do you remember the discussion?
>
> As for the problem of encrypting with one passphrase then another one and not be able to decrypt any data afterward, I think this is an issue that should be fixed. JIRA needed.
>
> ++
> Corinne
> On Jan 14, 2014, at 2:23 AM, Bruno Oliveira <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hi Tadeas, replied on the same issue.
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 12:43 PM, Tadeas Kriz <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hi there,
> >
> > in December, I’ve reported [1] and today Passos asked me if I could rather send it here to discuss it, as this behavior is the same in other platform’s implementations (which I wasn’t aware of before). So please read the description on that JIRA issue. Basically I have nothing more to say about it, what’s not in the description already. So, what do you think?
> >
> > 1 - https://issues.jboss.org/browse/AGDROID-173
> >
> > —
> > Tadeas Kriz
> > [hidden email]
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > aerogear-dev mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/aerogear-dev
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > --
> > "The measure of a man is what he does with power" - Plato
> > -
> > @abstractj
> > -
> > Volenti Nihil Difficile
> > _______________________________________________
> > aerogear-dev mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/aerogear-dev
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> aerogear-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/aerogear-dev
>
>
>
> --
>
> --
> "The measure of a man is what he does with power" - Plato
> -
> @abstractj
> -
> Volenti Nihil Difficile
> _______________________________________________
> aerogear-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/aerogear-dev


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qmx
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Re: [aerogear-dev] Strange encrypted store behavior

qmx
Administrator
In reply to this post by Corinne Krych
On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 09:46:38AM +0100, Corinne Krych wrote:
> In AGPasswordKeyServices the password is stored in secure local
> storage (KeyChain for iOS, KeyStore for Android), therefore you could
> do a password check at login time as stated in your workflow. I think

Wait, password is stored? ouch - we need to fix this!

No matter how secure is the keystore, it's mandatory for us to use a
key-derivation scheme, or at least the traditional salt+hash. Reversible
encryption is asking for trouble :P

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Re: [aerogear-dev] Strange encrypted store behavior

qmx
Administrator
In reply to this post by Corinne Krych
On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 02:50:18PM +0100, Corinne Krych wrote:
>
> On Jan 14, 2014, at 2:11 PM, Bruno Oliveira <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Again, storing passwords no matter how super safe is the KeyChain is
> > a terrible idea. Don't do it, please.
>
> Sorry not password but key.

You mean the keys derived from PBKDF2?

>
> >
> > > As for the problem of encrypting with one passphrase then another one and not be able to decrypt any data afterward, I think this is an issue that should be fixed. JIRA needed.
> >
> > This is mostly because you have to add a feature of passphrase change first.
>
> +1 make sense
> i
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 3:46 AM, Corinne Krych <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hi Tadeas,
> >
> > I think you bring back on the table an unfinished discussion on the topic of AGPassphraseKeyServices(used in password demo app) vs. AGPasswordKeyServices (not used in any demo yet).
> >
> > In AGPasswordKeyServices the password is stored in secure local storage (KeyChain for iOS, KeyStore for Android), therefore you could do a password check at login time as stated in your workflow. I think we intended to have 2 diffences EncryptionServices for those differents usage.
> > http://aerogear-dev.1069024.n5.nabble.com/aerogear-dev-Android-Crypto-API-sample-td5306.html
> > More work is needed for AGPasswordKeyServices and adding a demo/recipe app for it would be nice.
> > @summers @cvasilak do you remember the discussion?
> >
> > As for the problem of encrypting with one passphrase then another one and not be able to decrypt any data afterward, I think this is an issue that should be fixed. JIRA needed.
> >
> > ++
> > Corinne
> > On Jan 14, 2014, at 2:23 AM, Bruno Oliveira <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Tadeas, replied on the same issue.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 12:43 PM, Tadeas Kriz <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > Hi there,
> > >
> > > in December, I’ve reported [1] and today Passos asked me if I could rather send it here to discuss it, as this behavior is the same in other platform’s implementations (which I wasn’t aware of before). So please read the description on that JIRA issue. Basically I have nothing more to say about it, what’s not in the description already. So, what do you think?
> > >
> > > 1 - https://issues.jboss.org/browse/AGDROID-173
> > >
> > > —
> > > Tadeas Kriz
> > > [hidden email]
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > aerogear-dev mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/aerogear-dev
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > --
> > > "The measure of a man is what he does with power" - Plato
> > > -
> > > @abstractj
> > > -
> > > Volenti Nihil Difficile
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > aerogear-dev mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/aerogear-dev
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > aerogear-dev mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/aerogear-dev
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > --
> > "The measure of a man is what he does with power" - Plato
> > -
> > @abstractj
> > -
> > Volenti Nihil Difficile
> > _______________________________________________
> > aerogear-dev mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/aerogear-dev
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> aerogear-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/aerogear-dev

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Re: [aerogear-dev] Strange encrypted store behavior

Corinne Krych
Yep!
On Jan 14, 2014, at 3:03 PM, Douglas Campos <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 02:50:18PM +0100, Corinne Krych wrote:
>>
>> On Jan 14, 2014, at 2:11 PM, Bruno Oliveira <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Again, storing passwords no matter how super safe is the KeyChain is
>>> a terrible idea. Don't do it, please.
>>
>> Sorry not password but key.
>
> You mean the keys derived from PBKDF2?
>
>>
>>>
>>>> As for the problem of encrypting with one passphrase then another one and not be able to decrypt any data afterward, I think this is an issue that should be fixed. JIRA needed.
>>>
>>> This is mostly because you have to add a feature of passphrase change first.
>>
>> +1 make sense
>> i
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 3:46 AM, Corinne Krych <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Hi Tadeas,
>>>
>>> I think you bring back on the table an unfinished discussion on the topic of AGPassphraseKeyServices(used in password demo app) vs. AGPasswordKeyServices (not used in any demo yet).
>>>
>>> In AGPasswordKeyServices the password is stored in secure local storage (KeyChain for iOS, KeyStore for Android), therefore you could do a password check at login time as stated in your workflow. I think we intended to have 2 diffences EncryptionServices for those differents usage.
>>> http://aerogear-dev.1069024.n5.nabble.com/aerogear-dev-Android-Crypto-API-sample-td5306.html
>>> More work is needed for AGPasswordKeyServices and adding a demo/recipe app for it would be nice.
>>> @summers @cvasilak do you remember the discussion?
>>>
>>> As for the problem of encrypting with one passphrase then another one and not be able to decrypt any data afterward, I think this is an issue that should be fixed. JIRA needed.
>>>
>>> ++
>>> Corinne
>>> On Jan 14, 2014, at 2:23 AM, Bruno Oliveira <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Tadeas, replied on the same issue.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 12:43 PM, Tadeas Kriz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> Hi there,
>>>>
>>>> in December, I’ve reported [1] and today Passos asked me if I could rather send it here to discuss it, as this behavior is the same in other platform’s implementations (which I wasn’t aware of before). So please read the description on that JIRA issue. Basically I have nothing more to say about it, what’s not in the description already. So, what do you think?
>>>>
>>>> 1 - https://issues.jboss.org/browse/AGDROID-173
>>>>
>>>> —
>>>> Tadeas Kriz
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> aerogear-dev mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/aerogear-dev
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> "The measure of a man is what he does with power" - Plato
>>>> -
>>>> @abstractj
>>>> -
>>>> Volenti Nihil Difficile
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> aerogear-dev mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/aerogear-dev
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> aerogear-dev mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/aerogear-dev
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> --
>>> "The measure of a man is what he does with power" - Plato
>>> -
>>> @abstractj
>>> -
>>> Volenti Nihil Difficile
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> aerogear-dev mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/aerogear-dev
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> aerogear-dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/aerogear-dev
>
> --
> qmx
> _______________________________________________
> aerogear-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/aerogear-dev


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Re: [aerogear-dev] Strange encrypted store behavior

Bruno Oliveira
In reply to this post by Corinne Krych
Sorry not password but key.

We don't need to store the key once we have the salt, IV, iterations and the passphrase provided by our user is perfectly possible to generate again that key.

If this is not happening we need to revisit our code and figure out what's going on.


On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 8:50 AM, Corinne Krych <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Jan 14, 2014, at 2:11 PM, Bruno Oliveira <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Again, storing passwords no matter how super safe is the KeyChain is a terrible idea. Don't do it, please.

Sorry not password but key.

>
> > As for the problem of encrypting with one passphrase then another one and not be able to decrypt any data afterward, I think this is an issue that should be fixed. JIRA needed.
>
> This is mostly because you have to add a feature of passphrase change first.

+1 make sense
i
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 3:46 AM, Corinne Krych <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi Tadeas,
>
> I think you bring back on the table an unfinished discussion on the topic of AGPassphraseKeyServices(used in password demo app) vs. AGPasswordKeyServices (not used in any demo yet).
>
> In AGPasswordKeyServices the password is stored in secure local storage (KeyChain for iOS, KeyStore for Android), therefore you could do a password check at login time as stated in your workflow. I think we intended to have 2 diffences EncryptionServices for those differents usage.
> http://aerogear-dev.1069024.n5.nabble.com/aerogear-dev-Android-Crypto-API-sample-td5306.html
> More work is needed for AGPasswordKeyServices and adding a demo/recipe app for it would be nice.
> @summers @cvasilak do you remember the discussion?
>
> As for the problem of encrypting with one passphrase then another one and not be able to decrypt any data afterward, I think this is an issue that should be fixed. JIRA needed.
>
> ++
> Corinne
> On Jan 14, 2014, at 2:23 AM, Bruno Oliveira <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hi Tadeas, replied on the same issue.
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 12:43 PM, Tadeas Kriz <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hi there,
> >
> > in December, I’ve reported [1] and today Passos asked me if I could rather send it here to discuss it, as this behavior is the same in other platform’s implementations (which I wasn’t aware of before). So please read the description on that JIRA issue. Basically I have nothing more to say about it, what’s not in the description already. So, what do you think?
> >
> > 1 - https://issues.jboss.org/browse/AGDROID-173
> >
> > —
> > Tadeas Kriz
> > [hidden email]
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > aerogear-dev mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/aerogear-dev
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > --
> > "The measure of a man is what he does with power" - Plato
> > -
> > @abstractj
> > -
> > Volenti Nihil Difficile
> > _______________________________________________
> > aerogear-dev mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/aerogear-dev
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> aerogear-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/aerogear-dev
>
>
>
> --
>
> --
> "The measure of a man is what he does with power" - Plato
> -
> @abstractj
> -
> Volenti Nihil Difficile
> _______________________________________________
> aerogear-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/aerogear-dev


_______________________________________________
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--

-- 
"The measure of a man is what he does with power" - Plato
-
@abstractj
-
Volenti Nihil Difficile

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